Report transcript in: Carol's story of living with pain

Please Report the Errrors?

OK, cool. Can I get you to introduce yourself?

Um, my name's Carol. Um, and I live in South West Scotland,

and I'm just about to be joined by one of my cats.

Hello, cat. Thanks, Carol. Um

so, Carol, uh, what's the cat's name?

This one's called.

He he?

Hello, Hecker.

She likes

meetings. Sorry. No worries. She's more than welcome. Can I ask you? Like

what? What are you passionate about? What makes you Carol? What makes you tick?

I'm passionate about nature I'm passionate about, um,

my paganism.

Um I I run a big pagan camp, and I'm you know, it's sort of It's It's

what I would recall recall my job.

Um, really,

I'm passionate about singing,

um, and community and

people being nice to each other.

Absolutely.

So what's your kind of favourite

thing to sing? So, like, have you got a a type of music? You like singing?

Yes. Um, a cappella folk music. Um, mostly English folk music.

Although I also sing in choirs where we sing

all kinds of Balkan and Georgian music as well.

And I really love that

I loved Balkan music.

Great. I'm in a Balkan woman's choir now, which is lovely.

mean, I my husband's from Lithuania,

and when we I went to stay with him in his house,

his friends came around and they sang lots of, um, traditional Lithuanian songs,

and it was just such a

different experience, you know? It's just so wonderful.

It's got they they use different harmonies. Um,

yeah, I could listen to it for hours, you know, but

not as good at singing it, though, as I am as singing the English folk music. You know,

I'm sure you do a lot better than I do, because if you heard me sing,

you probably never wanna hear me again.

Everybody can say,

Yeah, this is probably

not very true because I certainly can't say anything,

can I? Um,

so, you know, we're doing this project about people living with pain,

So I wondered if you could share with me.

What?

You know what role does pain play in your life?

Pain plays an enormous part in my life because it it, um

it it kind of limits what I can do. It, um, informs what I can and can't do completely.

Really?

Um,

I from the minute I wake up in the morning.

I have to decide what I'm going to be capable of doing that day.

Um, and as I'm getting older,

it's getting, you know, more and more overwhelming. Really?

although I suppose when I was younger, although the pain was there,

I was able to cope with it and just stick it to the back of my head and just get on with it,

you know?

And now I can't

just get on with it. And some days I just can't function,

which is really annoying.

I hear you.

And how have you

managed to?

So you said that, like when you were younger, you were able to stick it

back your head.

How have you found, Like,

kind of getting support or managing it Like what works for you.

Um,

at the moment, what works for me is an extremely loving and caring husband.

Um, and a GP who is actually listening

to me instead of coming out with the Oh, well,

we all get aches and pains as we get older.

Um, and who talks to me about my,

um, my own ability to to to deal with it and actually supports my using the CBD oil,

which is in fact, the only thing that

keeps me going on a day to day basis.

And he's very, uh, happy for me to do that because it means I don't take all those nasty

prescription drugs which

mess up your kidneys and your liver.

So and being a bit more honest about it, actually, with people you know, um,

actually being able to say to people, Look, I'm sorry, I can't do this today,

whereas

before I suppose I would always just go. Yes, of course I can. Yes, of course.

You know, and and I would struggle, and I would push myself,

and then I'd suffer for the next two or three days and not be able to get off the sofa.

So I think being honest, But I don't think you can be honest

unless you know, you have got support from

your GP or or whatever. You know,

um, I got fed up of being just

told I was either imagining it. It was all in my head

or being given even stronger painkillers, you know, um and

that was sort of that felt as if I was being fobbed off

and I think that's quite a common thing with with chronic pain.

Um,

so I just deal with it myself.

Mostly. I've I've learned over the last 50 years, I've

I've learned how to how to deal with it.

What, um, how does it make you feel when

you're being fobbed off? Like, what impact does that have on you?

Well, you begin to doubt yourself. I think. You know, I I got to a point when

I was beginning to imagine that it was all in my head.

And perhaps I was not exactly making it up, but

I was

I was exaggerating it.

I I think Oh, well, you know, I is this Am I just experiencing normal things?

Am I wasting the doctor's time? Should I not bother going,

um, and then suffering in silence? Really? Um,

and then getting well, I mean, you know, getting

depression, suffering with a lot of depression.

I've had depression on and off all of my adult life.

Um, and

there was I changed the GP in my surgery because

the one GP was just basically not believing a word.

I said,

um,

and whatever I symptom, I told him I had, he said, Oh, well, you know,

I've had that as well, and it's

Yeah,

I don't see that one anymore.

Um, I see the other doctor in the surgery,

and he's the one that said he was the one that actually told me

you have fibromyalgia.

You know,

um,

which I had it. It had never occurred to me.

And it was quite a relief to think this man has

listened. He's heard me,

you know,

before that, for years, I I I was hiding it.

I was pretending it It wasn't that because I began to think that it was my fault.

I think that would be the way of putting it.

Why? Why did you think it was your fault?

Because I thought I was time wasting.

I thought I was wasting the doctor's time.

Um,

I was taking up valuable time that they

should be spending with people with real illnesses.

Um,

I I mean, I was brought up in a household where we weren't allowed to be ill.

Um uh, you know, I know my

mom sent me to school with whooping cough because she thought I was making it up.

and so I've got that kind of thing going in my head right from being a child that,

um you're probably making it up.

Um, I know

the thermometer would always come out at home when I was a kid,

and if it didn't reach a certain temperature, then you obviously were faking it.

Um,

and I think that's probably just stuck in my head

the whole of my life, you know that. Perhaps I'm faking it. Oh, dear. You know,

and it didn't help. When you have a doctor who thinks

or or implies that

I should say

absolutely. And do you like, how long have you lived with pain? For?

I've lived with pain for

52 years.

No,

um,

had an accident

when I was 18,

and,

um,

it has had a AAA knock on effect on the whole of my body.

Uh, the whole of my spine and all the nerves that come out of your spine. And, um, I had

four years of physiotherapy when I first

had the accident, and I had my neck stretched, which is not a pleasant experience.

Um, I I couldn't move my arms my shoulders

right from the beginning, and that got worse and worse.

And in fact, it got to the point where I was just not using my arms above

the elbows. I was just like, you know,

even when my Children were little like I couldn't pick them up

out of the cots or the bath or whatever,

Um, until I had surgery on them and they had to break them open again for me.

Oh, lovely.

Um,

but the whole the whole of my spine was impacted by that,

uh, that accident that I had,

um,

yeah, and and sort of. Then I got

I had various supposed treatments,

uh, which made it worse

because it was, um, wrongly, wrongly diagnosed.

You know, being treated for a slip disc when you haven't got one. It is pretty awful

being treated for, um

um,

AAA

joint that's come out when it hasn't It is is pretty dangerous.

So yeah, it's been.

But since then, since I was 18, really?

And like thinking about your journey

with pain

that what would you tell your younger self?

Oh,

um, I would probably tell my younger self to

speak up

and to

not be fobbed off to to refuse to be fobbed off.

Um,

speak. Yeah. Speak up.

Really? I think,

um, and make sure people can hear

what you're saying.

And don't don't be put off when people tell you it's all in your mind.

I was too scared, really. I was a very anxious child, Um, and an anxious teenager,

Um,

and and? And I didn't have the courage to do that then.

So, yeah, I think that's what I do.

Um,

really, really good advice.

Um, a lot of people have talked about

trauma and

the history of trauma in their lives and stuff or traumatic instances and pain.

Um,

have you managed, like, has that played a part in your kind of journey with me?

You're talking about childhood trauma and any kind of

Well, I mean,

this is I think where, um, the doctor got this. Oh, it's all in your mind thing from,

um, because I've not had a particularly easy life. Um, one way or another,

um, massive an anxiety attacks anyway, because that's the way I was born as it were.

And, um

and then sort of

Yeah,

something in my childhood. I don't want to talk about,

uh, not major, but enough for me to have clocked it in my head.

Um,

and divorces and

Children. I've got a child who refuses to speak to me because I was a hippie

and the other one who has had paranoid schizophrenia for the past 24 years,

which is quite a traumatic thing

to be dealing with.

Um,

so, you know,

life's been a bit of a sort of hard struggle most of the time rather than one specific

trauma.

The biggest trauma in my life was, um, landing on my head

when I was run over by a car,

which is, you know, that was,

I would say, singularly, the most traumatic thing that's happened to me.

Thank you for sharing a bit about, like, your experiences.

So I was like, I was really interested in

whe when you talked about, like, nasty medications and the effects they have on you.

So have you been

encouraged to

take lots of pain medications and like and And you talked

about like this Really good doctor versus this Doctor didn't listen.

So what has, like, your treatment? Like what? What?

How have people wanted to support you? Manage your pain?

Um,

well, of course, the, uh, thing that I was

tape put onto straight away was gabber

Panin,

Um,

and

doses of gabapentin,

which was so high I couldn't function as a as a

human being. If I carried on with that dose,

I would have been

sitting on my sofa watching daytime TV for the rest of my life. You know,

um, I was given

anti inflammatories, which made me feel ill. And I was given

painkillers. I can't take codeine because I have,

um, irritable bowel, Which means that you know, I can't take codeine in any any form.

So it's OK, what can I We'll give you tramadol instead?

So, yeah, let's get you addicted to Tramadol as well, you know,

And I did. I was I was taking a huge amount of tramadol without anybody

checking up on it

for for quite a long time

until I changed to the other GP in the surgery.

And he heard that I wasn't happy doing this

that I was scared of,

um of being without

I was referred to, um

c BT

C BT? Yes. C BT.

I was told I was being referred to a pain clinic.

And then when I got there. It wasn't a pain clinic.

It was the psychologist who was giving me C BT

and basically told me that I had to

make my pain. My friend,

we lasted four weeks and I just went stuff, you mate.

And I've just spent the last 40 odd years

trying to shove it to the back boiler and you're wanting me to just live it

right up here all the time. And that's how

they didn't do any good

again. It was that that, um

not hearing that my pain was actually

rooted in injuries to my spine.

It was not OK.

When you're anxious or depressed or traumatic experiences happen in your life.

Obviously you feel things physical things a lot more sharply.

Um,

but that's not why they're there in the first place,

you know.

I know.

For example, I'm having a fibromyalgia flare up this last few weeks,

and I know it's because of the stress that

we're going through in the family at the moment.

But all of that fibromyalgia

probably originates from the damage that was done to

my neck when I was 18 years of age.

So telling me to make pain my friend and and and try and

sort of like, Oh, you know, it's all in your mind I That was not supportive at all.

So I I had a choice, didn't I? I had a choice of either

taking

noxious chemicals that the doctor was giving me,

which were destroying my kidney and my liver

being told that it was all in my mind.

So yeah,

CBD was the only way forward. And it works

as well. It works as well as anything.

You know,

At least I can function from day to day. Now,

I I'm glad you found something that works for you.

I'm really interested in when you said having a flare up, What does that mean to you?

To me, it means that every single part of my body is screaming in pain.

It means that my feet feel as if they're either in

a bucket full of ice cold water or being toasted in

a fire or within 30 seconds of each other when my

husband can tell me that my feet feel perfectly normal.

Um, it means that I have, um, an appalling itch which moves around my body,

and I scrape myself raw with it.

It means that my I

can't think straight.

Um, and in fact, I just want to lie down in bed with a hot water bottle and not move,

which, of course I know is not a good thing.

But some days, it is all I feel I can do.

Um, and I it it means I don't get out of bed until about 10.

Half past 10 in the morning, which is, which is ridiculous. Really

sleeps bit. Shit.

Um,

massive

temperature changes in my body, which I think are

not

real.

They're not apparent to anybody else but me.

Um,

and a feeling as if I've been lifting 10

tonne weights with my arms when I've done nothing.

So yeah, it's pretty. It's pretty bad at the minute.

It's pretty bad. I mean it. But, uh, you know,

some somebody in the house is cooking my meals for me and

bringing me breakfast in bed and stuff like that. So that was good.

I'm so sorry. It's shit at the moment and

like,

you've kind of started to ask my next next question.

But what impact does it have on your loved ones

and what impact does it have on your family?

Um,

well, I have my mother, who is still alive at 91

still doesn't think I'm ill.

You know, I use the word ill, but you know what I mean. She doesn't believe me.

Basically, my my mother has

Well, you just have to get on. Get on with it. Stop.

Stop being so silly and just get on with it.

Um,

good for her. I'm glad she can do it, but, um,

she she has always minimised my pain.

I don't see my Children

at all,

um,

for the for for different reasons. You know,

um and

I am so glad that Bill and I got together. We've been together for 12 years now,

and

that's been the first time

in my adult life that I have

felt

supported

and listened to,

but I still have this niggling feeling of guilt at the back of my mind.

You know,

Um,

that kind of I'm sure he didn't marry me,

thinking that he'd be having to look after me all this time.

Um,

it doesn't bother him at all. Really

bothers me more. I'm always apologising to him,

you know, for being a burden.

He doesn't think I am, but I do.

mean,

yeah,

it's OK. I I have very similar experiences, and it's hard. It's hard

because what's in here is in here, isn't it?

Yeah,

yeah,

yeah.

So, like, a lot of people

that don't live with pain avoid

pain and talking about pain.

And I'm just curious why you wanted to share your stories. Like,

why would

you want to? Why have you shared your story?

I was a Kath asked me if I would,

um, do this. And I am.

I'm a great believer in getting as much information out there as possible.

You know,

in the same way that I talk about my son's schizophrenia

to everybody,

I don't go around. Go Oh, guess what?

My son's got schizophrenia, but you know, I don't hide it.

And I think I've always said that talking about it

gets rid of the the stigma

of it and helps people understand the big,

serious mental health issues a little bit more the more it's talked about,

the better.

And I think the same thing goes with pain,

you know, um,

pain belongs to

everybody.

Everybody has pain.

Some time in their life, everybody.

Oh, and we shouldn't We shouldn't have to do the stiff upper lip thing.

You know, um, there's nothing wrong

with with having with saying you have pain.

Um,

and I think the more people that talk about it the better.

And then also, I think

the information needs to get out there for

such health care professionals as that GP that I had to change.

You know,

they need to know that we're real,

that we're not making it up

and that we deserve to be listened to.

And I think

I'm one for being stand up and and and being countered,

You know, I've always been that kind of a person. And that's what I'm doing here.

Thank you.

It's so important. And, um,

yeah, I totally feel that these stories will make a difference.

Yeah.

Is there anything else that you wanted to share with

me that you think that's important to be heard?

Um,

I I don't know. I think we may have covered it.

Unless you've got some more things you you want to ask or

discuss?

You know

what you think you want to ask me?

Ok,

I feel I don't know. I mean,

do you want to share your story with me? Yeah. Why not? Like I'm so

when you were talking, are you?

I was very conscious that I also live with mental health challenges.

Um,

live in absolutely fear

of telling people about how bad my pain is.

Um, and I have spent years and years and years

talking and sharing all my mental health experiences

to hide the fact that actually, I'm actually with a lot of pain.

Um,

I was diagnosed

after

being sent

everywhere, basically with fibromyalgia.

And, um so I first I was diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome.

I m AM e then chronic fatigue syndrome.

Then I BS. Then

I finally got a diagnosis of fibromyalgia,

and I didn't even I've never, never heard of it.

I was, like, never heard of this thing.

Um,

was very blinkered in my

wanting to

research.

And I'm quite the person likes to know what's going on,

but I just couldn't cope with knowing,

you know, really much about. I just suffered in in in silence,

took lots of medications,

you know, did had hundreds and hundreds, hundreds of appointments,

missed appointments, because, you know, some days I just can't get up out of bed.

And when I got my diagnosis felt I

felt, Oh, God,

there is something really wrong with me because people told me on my journey that

Oh, it's all in your head. Um

and

it has affected

my ability to work.

It's affected my ability to have intimate relationships.

It's affected my ability to do so many things.

But the worst thing is,

have felt absolutely shamed about living with pain

because it's not something that I think

I was ever comfortable talking about.

What?

When I've spoken about it, I think a lot of people have said Oh or minimised it and

it just makes you or it's made me just retreat. Um,

so even a lot of my colleagues and friends

know so much about all my other health challenges.

But when it comes to the pain, it's very

still,

I think, a bit of an elephant in the room.

And I think

this project has made me think well, I wonder why that is.

What is it that I'm I'm comfortable with?

Why has my experience been so shit?

Yeah.

Um, I've had the doctor Tell me to pull up my socks.

Oh, yes,

I've heard

clinical psychologists. Tell me, is this a mummy and daddy issue?

And that was the exact words.

Um, I also have a wonderful GP who

has gone with me gone

like beyond and above what you could imagine And,

you know,

tramadol,

uh, Naproxin

to name a few.

But like all of these tablets been prescribed to me at one point,

I was on 30 or different tablets,

you know? Guess what happened.

My stomach got really messed up as a result of it.

Nobody told me that I should be taking a stomach line now,

then got addicted to the painkillers.

And

then the pain was still there.

Went on

a pain management course after

about 15 years of living with pain

and

at times wanting to

not be here.

If I'm honest at times, it's been so bad. I've been

don't want to be here. What's the point of

you know

when

the world is going so well for you in your brain But your body just doesn't play ball.

It's really hard to live with.

Went on this pain management course and met other people.

And I was like, Wow, there are other people like me,

um,

and and and very nice people that

share those experiences.

And this consultant told me something was really,

really scary.

Was never let anyone operate operate on you because

they were just about to operate on my spine,

and, um, that would have been a misdiagnosis. So,

um,

there has been so much kind of

either denial about my pain that's in your head.

Or actually, it's this thing and we're gonna treat it the most aggressively

way, and we're gonna operate on you,

or we're gonna give you the much strongest painkillers,

and we

and and like you, you know,

the pen

pen

in Or,

you know, the dose was like to the point where

I just couldn't think it was like

I felt like I'd It's a chemical cost. I felt

so all the things that were supposed to help never helped. And then when

I started to kind of explore a different way of being

that was used against me, I was told that I was being difficult.

And if you want not to live in pain,

well, why would you not take this medication.

Yeah,

Yeah. And

so I've got

met a guy

now married to him.

And he's probably the first person that's been like

OK, like, you know, very cool about it, Very

matter of fact and very supportive. Um,

and I've had to learn

to be

and and this is like my expression. So

I sometimes feel like a a young person

in a very much older body.

Mhm.

And I've had to learn how to be a person living with pain and working.

I've had to be a person

living with pain and being in a relationship. I've had to be a person

that

as friendships,

but sometimes can't be the best friend because I can't do

the things that you might need from one for me.

Um,

and this project has pushed me so far out of

my comfort zone because I don't talk about my pain.

It's very much easier when you can get other people to talk about theirs, isn't it?

is it. And and I think

I I think the the the people that I've spoken to

have all

had very similar experiences, which is such a shame, like, why

haven't we been believed,

Why haven't we been able to get that support?

And why has it taken

so long for people to

find what works for them?

And I'm not sure that I've quite found what works for me if I'm honest,

Um,

but I think I'm quite Gobby,

and I think that I have lots of gumption.

But I found it really hard. So imagine what it's like for people that

so that's why I probably am sharing my story, and

I I still

I'm not interested in

the idea

or the notion that

people's pain

doesn't matter where pain comes from.

If people have pain and that's what they're telling you,

help them.

It's real. Believe them.

Yeah,

well, I'm very

I feel quite honoured, given that you feel uncomfortable talking about your pain.

I feel quite honoured that you've felt

able to tell me because you've only only met me very briefly.

So thank you for that. I that's that's

a big hoax.

Thank you. Thank you. Likewise. It just feels like the right thing to do.

I don't know. It's

it's just one of those things that

I don't know. Uh, I'm I'm not sure

I feel uncomfortable

I do feel uncomfortable, but I'm I'm now feeling that I need to find a way

and a lot of my communications around pain has been to

and I call it ostrich. So I just go into my bed

under the duvet

and wait for it to pass. And it feels at times, if I'm honest, that I've lost

so many opportunities and moments because

I just haven't had the words or the ability to

vocalise how shit shit it can be.

Yeah,

Yeah.

Do you where you live is that is Are you in the middle of the cities or towns or Yeah,

I'm in London.

London?

Yeah. So I'm in the middle of town,

Um,

and I live in a two up two down,

and

I've, like, just stumbled on things. So things that work for me,

like I have a toilet downstairs.

I did,

Yeah. No, but I but bedrooms up there, So,

like, really simple, like things that

people look at just wouldn't understand that

sometimes just being able to get to the toilet when you can't

walk and move, and you and you know

that kind of stuff or

having to,

um, have two bedrooms or rather than one bedroom. Because

when I'm in pain, I can't

really cope with other people,

be touching and being around me.

So these are things that I've I've kind of just

developed and learned along the way. And then I've met people

that have given me lots more tips

than actually systems and doctors and pain specialists

is that people living with it have given me

lots more support and tips.

Yeah,

well, this is the first time I've really been part of any kind of group.

Um,

you know, sharing this experience of of long term pain,

Um,

just sort of gone on with it on my own. Really?

I think I've inherited that from my mother because she's one that does that.

I can do it all on my own,

but, um,

it's interesting that the word fibromyalgia is is is coming out a bit more.

Now there's a bit.

It was unheard of in this country

or not, but certainly not believed in this country.

And and then if you looked it up online, everything was a was American.

Um, and I have to admit, I've done most of my research

with American studies because there's not.

There's not the, um the stuff done in this country,

but to actually just hear other people say I have fibromyalgia

is it's

it's a great thing

you're not on your own And it it And I think that's quite important, isn't it?

It really is, and and like living with pain in itself can be quite isolating.

And then so being able to have access to other people with those experiences.

And when we did our zoom call, I felt so validated. I came off and I was like,

Shit, let's all look at these other people

And there were people that weren't ashamed and there were people that

are clearly doing,

managing and not managing, you know, like it's a very big broad spectrum

and

some people

that I had the same experience. Yeah, it just felt so validating. I just felt

well

and you were facilitating this and so therefore, you didn't mention yours at all.

I I did actually in my breakup room, talk about

yeah,

and I have been very honest with people about

that

People's West media. I work there, but clearly they thought about like, you know

who's the best person to work on this project.

And

I think having that experience

has, you know, the assumption that you know, having a bit

of a long term pain

gives you the ability to kind of connect is is is very true.

But actually, I'm on a very different journey than some people.

So I have learned more

than

I had expected. And I have feel like, you know, this.

This project, particularly for me,

has been

just so positive. And I've learned, and,

you know, I'm supposed to be the facilitator of catching stories,

not that I ever believe. It's not

that we all learn it when we're in space together, but it's been

so valuable for me.

I know, um, having,

uh, when I had breast cancer and

discovering that I could have a breast body,

somebody who had the lived experience and had gone through it,

even though their journey was completely different to mine,

made my

experience of it that less that much more,

that much less frightening.

And now I am a breast buddy to somebody else, and it's kind of getting this sort of

interlinked

us. And I think knowing that there are people out there

who? That their experience will be different to yours.

But there is a common thing, isn't there? There's a common thread

through it all.

Um,

yeah, I'm I'm fascinated to see where this

project

goes. Um, it could be

cos we're all over the country, aren't we? We are, We are.

And I'm I'm not sure where it will go, but I do think it will go somewhere

cos there there are things that, like

everybody has within

then.

So although they live with pain and pain can be so debilitating

everyone's got so much grit

Everyone's got so much

desire to do

that just

yeah, it's just do you not think, Jo Isaac, that if you don't have the grit,

then

you just give up, don't you? And you just just might as well not be here.

Yeah, yeah, but I think unlike other projects,

that

it is very present here that people are not gonna give up

and haven't given up and wanna make a difference.

And it feels an honour but

a great responsibility to

to each other to kind of how we make sense of these stories, how we use them in a way

um,

but I'm also fortunate to work with caff and people's social media that

work in that way. Anyway, um, that is just an inspiration, isn't she, Really?

Oh, God. So, like anyone that comes across caff in her life is very lucky.

Yeah,

I'm so glad I came across her. I really am.

She's just a rap, sunshine.

She really is. And

she she's she doesn't even know it. Most of the time,

I Yeah, I I she She's very humble. I think

I I think that would be a good way to describe Kath is that she's very humble.

Um, but just one of the nicest,

nicest people. One of those,

uh, a person with more integrity than than most. You know, She's

Yeah,

sing sing cats praises, you know? Yeah.

She's certainly one of the people that I'd certainly pick up the phone to.

She's on the top of the list if Oh, yes,

I was having a shit day.

The person.

Yeah,

and I'm lucky cos she's only three miles down the road, So

you are. And I'm like the opposite of the side of the country,

but I'm sure our paths will definitely cross in person, man.

Oh, that would be nice. Yeah. I'm planning to go to a festival by

s, though.

And

this this festival? Yes.

Yeah. I don't go to knocking

anymore because I can't cope with the, um

it rains a lot.

And it's, uh, cold, Of course, because it's Scotland.

Uh, I used to I used to have a stall there reading tarot.

Um, but that meant that I had to be there for five days,

and I just can't do it anymore. I can't camp for five days. You know,

lying down in a in A

in a in a field is not something I'm capable of doing anymore.

But knock

and

Gori is wonderful. Just make sure you come with plenty of thick boots.

Yeah, definitely. But, um,

when you come up, Isaac, I'll have we'll have to arrange to meet the coffee in the,

uh in in the local art centre.

Definitely,

definitely. And, uh,

and a chat is always so lovely.

And thank you so much for, like, meeting with me and sharing your story.

And

thank you for sharing your too. I'm very

honoured.

Mutual mutual. And what I'm gonna do next is

I'm gonna send you, um, the consent form again?

Because I know you've already probably completed

probably,

but I'll send it just in case. I'm

I'm gonna type up. What? We've the the story.

So there's the kind of written version of it.

I'll give you a copy of it because I always like to share copies of people's stories

and I'll be in touch with what next?

Um, I know we've got a sense making workshop on the 13th.

So, um, so thank you. And have a lovely

afternoon

and you

take care.

Bye bye bye.

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Author

streetreporter

Post date

20/04/2023