"I am not a stereotype": A Romany Gypsy on Family, Culture, and Challenging Prejudice

Mm Oh yeah, OK, and I get you winged yourself. Hi, um, I'm Gemma Lees. I am a Roman Egypsy, autistic and disabled artist and journalist. And um I come from a really big uh Romany family

And my passions are really um education and inclusion, and I'm really educating people about GTRSB communities. And, and showing the good side, because the press only shows the bad side and our communities, our cultures, our histories are so rich and so beautiful and so powerful, um, that people need to know about them. So can I ask you, thank you for that lovely introduction, um what does community mean to you? Um, I think, um, in terms of sort of gipsies and travellers, community is super, super strong

Um, we have really strong, um, family bonds, but we also have really strong bonds with our wider community. Um, one of the things that older travellers like to say is oh bred you. Um, and it, it seems silly as someone in their 40s to be talking, oh, this is who my dad is

I mean, normally that's something that sort of rich people do, don't you know who my dad is. Um, but actually, um, networks and Um, kind of who you belong to are really important and, and we love to get together and celebrate all of the big life events. And yeah, we just, and we have a lot of respect for elders and it's just really, really super strong, our communities

And you talked about you doing a lot around educating people. So what would you tell people that have never heard about your community? Like how would you like describe your community? What would you be, what would you tell people? Um, I think, I think the first thing is to ignore the press. Um, because it's just so unbalanced

They only report the bads, and I, I guess it's just not news, you know, Roman Egypsy behaves well and pays taxes. I, uh, yeah, um. And I would tell them To to look beyond that

And Sorry, my mind's gone again. And uh what would you tell people about your community? We have such beautiful. And rich histories and cultures

And, um, you know, gypsy music, gypsy dance, gypsy handicrafts. Um, Yeah, look, look beyond the, the, the kind of negative, the, the, the biassed reporting. And um Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm a human being

I'm not a a stereotype. And in terms of like, you've really give me a lot of. Insight into like your community and the things that are really positive

Um, and then you talked about stereotypes. So I'm just wondering about, like, the role that you play and the reason why you wanted to share your story. So why is it important to share Gypsy culture, gypsy stories, Romany culture, yeah

Just regress the balance. It's, um, you know, the Kind of average person. All they know is the oh people are roadside camping, that that's all people know

Um, And it's, it's just such a horrible shame. And, and it leads to things like what happened in Manchester in December, where, um, our young people were attacked and put onto trains, not knowing where they were going, because the assumption was that when, when they gathered together, there was going to be trouble. And I, I don't think the assumption for a lot of ethnic groups is immediately that a group is gonna cause trouble

Uh, rather than just go to the Christmas markets, which is what they weren't planning to do. And what impact has and does things like that have on you and and your community? Oh, I mean, it's, it's devastating. I, I, I went to the march

My, my son is 13 tomorrow. Some of these children were 13 and. And I don't mean to be kind of over the top with this, but I went to Auschwitz in October

And the idea of children being Forced onto trains, not knowing where they were going, I mean. It's an echo of that, isn't it, you know. Um, and it's, it's just terrifying that

My son. Could have a black mark against his name for no other reason. than the fact that he was born as a gypsy

Mm. I mean, it, it's, it's just terrifying as a mother. And I'm, I'm sorry that's your experience

I want to ask you if you could. Vision or reimagine the future, like what would it? Be that you wanted people to do and know and. Be like, be with your community, like what is it that your commun, you know, what, what needs to be different? I think the assumption needs to be

That we are Law abiding. Um, that we are friendly, that we are kind, that we have strong family bonds that Um, that we are human beings who have bibles like everybody else, but we're not all criminals, we're not all bad people. I think the assumption needs to be that we are good

Um, until proven otherwise, the assumption should not be that we're bad until proven otherwise. Um. I mean, I, I've I've met people and they've said

You're not what I expected. And I know what that means, um. I mean, I'm, I'm doing an event um with workshi libraries for GRT History Month

And it's um a comedy and poetry night. Um, people on Facebook, um, actually made comments that had to be deleted. Um, because the assumption was that when a few of us gathered together to do poetry in a library, there was going to be some sort of issue

Um, yeah, it just, it it also upsets me that the assumption is always that. We're gonna cause trouble. Yeah

And what has really struck me in our conversation is the reference to community and family. You talk a lot about family. And I do lots of like conversations with people

And family sometimes features, but not all the time. Like, what does family mean to you? Um, so I think you can see behind me, my, my son's artwork. Um, the family business is very important to us, sort of self-employment in the family business

My dad is, um, an author and a storyteller. I'm an artist. My son is now earning his pocket money helping us both out

Um, it's, I don't know, it's, it's, it's, it's just super important. I mean, I had a really beautiful moment actually when we were in, uh, Berlin. And we went to the Roman City Holocaust Memorial

And there's an extra bit that was put in in 2022. And it's got um biographies of famous Roma and Sinti people and um the one for Matteo Maximoff. My dad wrote it

And I had this beautiful actual really meaningful moment where I took a picture of my son. In front of this memorial in Germany, and sent it to my dad and was like, hey, guess where we were today. Um, and even though the memorial is, is a place of sort of deep reflection and it's very and it was very meaningful to me

It was more meaningful that I had that family connection, um. And intergenerational um, sort of, um, pardon me, intergeneration is really important to us. We're super respectful of, of elders and

Um, We see elders as very wise and and to be cared for and looked after and not, I mean, Some communities like they kind of put people in a home and never visit them, and that's, that's really that we wouldn't do that, you know. Um, and we also Children are involved from a younger age. So the the kind of family business thing, we treat children

A lot more grown up, and we involve them in things from a lot younger age. Mhm. I really have this sense of like bonds and history, so I'm, I'm conscious that

We've talked a bit about stereotypes, a lot about the positive stuff. I think these conversations are more important, particularly because of the stuff that's happening nationally, um, and. It's so important, so I'm, I'm hopeful like what would you want people to take away from your story as a result of kind of just sharing it? Um, We're not bad people

We're, we're not ordinary people. We're neither the stereotype of the, you know, free spirit gypsy who wears the skirt with the coins on. All the romantic, you know, man who swoops in, but we're also not the, the troublemakers, the lawbreakers, the people who dodged their taxes

We are actually human beings, um, we're all different. We do share collective cultural norms, but in that we're all. Unique and an individual and Start from that, start from taking me as a regular normal human being

Um, not a stereotype, and I think we'll get a lot further, to be honest. Um, yeah. Yeah

OK. Have you got any questions for me? Um, yeah, um. Why, why do you think it's so important to sort of share these stories? I'm, I'm really interested in how it all came about

Yeah, I think that Well, my experience has been that we can often live in a world where our thinking and the way that we are, um, might be based on lots of assumptions, or, and, uh, um, there is an expression that I can never remember, like, assuming makes an ass of you and I or whatever it is, I can never get it right. And for me, the world is like wonderful and beautiful, and the more we see people for who they are, the more kindness and the more. Um, and I was probably taken back to when you talked about sort of the trains, and we know what othering people does as a disabled person, as, uh, a global majority individual

I'm really conscious that when we other people, it can lead to dehumanisation and real consequences such as people, you know, in our, Um, living history, people, um, face the consequences of being offered and their lives that came to an end as a result of that. So for me, it's about stories matter because people matter. We can change people by connecting, and we have more in common, I think as human beings than we do have in difference

And actually what. Is different, is actually the exciting stuff. I'm not scared of difference

I'm like, yeah, I'm getting that. I don't have any experience of some of the stuff that you might have experienced, but I, I, I wanna know, I wanna feel it. So that's what

Yeah, the same likewise. Yeah. Um, yeah

I, I, yeah, I think difference is really beautiful and I love learning about people. I love learning about their cultures. Um, yeah

No, that's, that's really beautiful. It's really beautiful that. So do you have any final comments before we come to the end of the time we've got together? Yeah, I, I think the final comment is just that I am not a stereotype

Um, And A lot of prejudice, like you say, is, is, is rooted in in stereotypes, is rooted in putting people in boxes and saying this is what they are. Um, and I, not everybody in the community don't treat people like they Google, but me personally. I will answer any question that's put to me politely

So if you've got that burning question, I will answer it. Cool. Brilliant

I think that's a lovely place to end if you're OK, um..